It's kind of pointless to argue when life begins because people have differing opinions and no one is possessed of the divine knowledge necessary to make the distinction. I personally would never have an abortion, but I don't believe life begins at conception. You have some other viewpoint on the subject.
i dont see it as pointless at all, not all opinions were created equal .... just like lawyers argue their sides to the "reasonable individual" axiom, the same can be done here; using precedent and implication (just as i did re surviving outside the body) to see the situation as objectively and logically as possible...
the problem is people cannot look at the issue without thinking of the morality....this leads to logical absurdities, like saying life doesnt begin at contraception (if its not a life than what exactly is it you are aborting?
) because if it did begin at contraception abortion automatically = murder = wrong when youre considering moarilty
But going back to the earlier reference to history... historically speaking, men have not been overwhelmingly great about taking responsibility for their own. Not even so long ago, women who found themselves with child sans husband, were ostracized, the children shunned etc... History tells us that when left to their own devices and without the legal binds of marriage, men are incredibly "selfish" when it comes to "doing the right thing." To a great degree, women have abortions because the father wants them to. Isn't it a little arrogant to hold women up to some higher standard just because some societal value decrees that they're "supposed" to be selfless or more generous.
but its 'a womans body, and a womans right to choose blah blah' ... this is why its not the mans decision to have an abortion, and since its not his body, why should he have to do anything if he doesnt want to?
whose trying to hold woman up to a higher standard, i never said men were any better ...
History also notes that women have been aborting unwanted babies at least since Cleopatra's time. Statistics tells us that women continue to have abortions even when the procedure is illegal. It seems pointless to enforce some law requiring women to have children, when historically that law is unenforcable. Obviously, there is something wrong with that law.
history tells us people have been raping, stealing and murdering since even before cleopatra, even when these action are illegal people continue steal, rape and murder ...
Statistics show that the women who have abortions are for the most part without the financial means to support them, more often than not they are without a support system i.e. no father in the picture, or are otherwise unfit to raise a child. You've said yourself that abortion should be available for at least some of these reasons... so where is the argument? Statistics show that women literally have millions of abortions each year. What would this already over-populated planet look like if all of these millions of unwanted babies were foisted into stretched to the limit welfare systems or abused in horrible homes? I'm not sure what you're arguing... you say abortion is necessary, and yet women are selfish for having them 
they couldnt put the babies up for adoption?
i love abortion, it means more earth foy jimmy and it should be legal (and in some cases mandatory)
my arguement is that calling it anything other than murder is illogical and that its selfish thing to do, while at the same time being selfless(because it helps society)
